[triangle-zpug] UML + AXG -- Re: Plone Jam 3/20/08

Mark R. Biggers biggers at utsl.com
Wed Mar 19 12:58:45 UTC 2008


Hi folks,

Josh Johnson writes:
 > I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that model driven development is 
 > falling out of favor (least in my case), it's more like model-driven 
 > _code generation_ is turning out to be a real pipe dream.
 >
 > To put it differently: I still think I'm in love with UML, I just don't 
 > want to have code babies with it.
 >
 > Rob Lineberger wrote:
 > > I have the same dream as you, but with something that generates a
 > > working Plone 3 product.  
 > >
 > > I can (and in fact, recently did) present a tutorial on 2.5-style UML >>
 > > AGX >> Plone.  I'd be happy to do the same thing at a Plone Jam now that
 > > the kinks have been worked out, but with a "real" UML model.  But the
 > > Plone community seems pretty set on Zope3 tech, which Josh is much more
 > > versed in.
 > >
 > > In other words, I suspect that model driven development is falling out
 > > of favor, for good reasons according to people who know what they are
 > > doing.  Instead of refining that process, it might make more sense to
 > > explore the new way.

We "discussed" this possible issue over IRC #weblion, during the
PloSympEast.  Joel Burton, in particular, thinks that there *must* be a
story for ArgoUML + ArchGenXML going forward.  There's too many folks using
AGX right now (with their fav. UML UI) for Plone2, and will expect that they
can go forward with their models on Plone3.

For my part, without AGX, I don't know how I could have been "bootstrapped"
into doing real Plone2 development!  Having the unit-test stubs; some
workable "skeleton" of archetypes-classes from the model; and having a
product that can install or unit-test "out of the box" is a *huge win*.  And
I like the fact that the UML model-representation is reflected in the code,
and can be (manually) "round-tripped" with the code changes.

AGX hasn't overcome the need to stare at Plone code (e.g. unit-tests) or use
IPython or WingIDE to "get" all the APIs, but I can't overemphasize how much
help Argo+AGX has been.  Also, I think the combo has actually attracted and
help keep new (possibly quite experienced otherwise) developers learning
Plone & Zope.

Hence, my great interest in Josh's fixes for AGX, and any signs that AGX
1.6.x or 2.0 will be a serious lever for doing Plone3 products development.

("paster" is fine as far it goes; I don't have a problem with it per se.)

My 2 cents, thank you,
----mark



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