[triangle-zpug] October 27 meeting

Paolo Mangiafico paolo.mangiafico at duke.edu
Tue Oct 12 21:43:06 CEST 2004

Thanks Chris! Some of the issues you mention in your e-mail are exactly the 
kind of thing I'd like to learn more about. As far as I'm concerned, I don't 
think a prepared presentation is necessary (or even desirable) and I'd be glad 
  to just hear more about your case studies in "Social Patterns in Content 
Management" and have an open discussion around the ups and downs of how Zope 
CMS tools are actually used "in the wild" by both techies and non-techies.

I've added an event object to trizpug.org with a tentative agenda along these 
lines, and have linked it to a document with directions and parking 
information. Let me know if it's not in the right format or needs other info.

I'm also interested in the Plone boot camp, so please let me know more details 
when you have them.

Thanks again...

-- Paolo

Chris Calloway wrote:

> Paolo Mangiafico wrote:
>> The next Tri-ZPUG meeting is scheduled for Wednesday October 27, and 
>> we're prepared to host it in Perkins Library at Duke University again.
> Paolo,
> If you could join trizpug.org and post a calendar event in your home
> folder, I'll publish it. It will then automatically show up on the
> calendar portlet.
> The default Plone event content type is pretty limited (it's meant to be
> customized/entended by those with time on their hands). The only free 
> form text is the "description" property and it's plain text. As such, if 
> I have things like directions or maps to post with an event, I usually 
> create a separate document or image in the folder, and link it to the 
> event through the "more information" hyperlink property in the event. If 
> the event and related content are all in the same folder, you don't need 
> to preface the link with http:// or a path name. Just the Plone short 
> name (same as Zope ID property) will suffice.
> Creating events, documents, and images is pretty intuitive once you join
> and visit your home folder. You might need to click on "contents" of
> your home folder. You can also create folders within your home folder.
> If you choose the "meeting" event type on the event edit form when you 
> create your event, I'll be able to rig the meetings folder to display it 
> there when published, also. Effective use of metatdata... (I like 
> supplying as much metadata with an item as possible).
>> I'd like to propose a discussion/demonstration of Plone as a topic, 
>> mainly because it's something I'm trying to learn more about right 
>> now, but I think there's probably significant interest among others at 
>> Duke and in the Tri-ZPUG community. We've got at least two people in 
>> the group (Geoff and Chris) who were at the recent Plone conference, 
>> and maybe they could give us an overview of the conference and its 
>> highlights. I'd also be interested in a discussion of some of the more 
>> social (i.e., not necessarily technological) issues related to 
>> implementing Plone with loose-knit and possibly not very tech-savvy 
>> communities: how have the editing and workflow interfaces worked for 
>> content authors; do users understand and make effective use of the 
>> member spaces, calendars, etc.?
>> Does this sound good to you all, or are there other topics that you'd 
>> prefer to cover this month? And are there any volunteers to lead this 
>> discussion?
> Heh. Geoff is in Beantown for at least another month. I was hoping to 
> make it past the election before having to put anything else to do on my 
> calendar. (A certain local political website is Plone and very community 
> driven. I don't mind talking about it if others aren't, uh, offended. 
> But this election is taking up all my "free" time with canvassing, 
> volunteer direction, etc.). But if no one else steps forward, I can make 
> *some* sort of spiel. It could be a conference report like last year, 
> although a conference report itself would be pretty spread out and high 
> level as so much stuff is convered. Another possibility is a 
> presentation from the conference itself. Geoff gave two of the best and 
> he should present his some other time, especially CMFMember, since there 
> is interest in memberish content types. If I were to hijack another 
> conference presentation, it would be the one on PloneTestCase, 
> especially since Plone development is putting such emphasis on creating 
> test cases before code. That would involve more preparation on my part 
> than I can invest before November. That leaves conference report, which 
> would kind of be a snoozer in that it would not be much more than a 
> mention of many community developed products and projects, and maybe an 
> account of the current state of development. It deserves more like ten 
> minutes than a whole program.
> Therefore, if someone else would like to step forward, I'd be glad to 
> step back.
> I'm not making huge use of teamspaces, member workspaces, group folders, 
> etc., etc., yet, because, among other reasons, some of my sites where it 
> would be useful are pretty new and the others where it would be useful 
> have had their terms of operation dictated by folks who up until now 
> have not been all that interested in those capabilities (at least not 
> enough to invest).
> In that respect, there is probably very much of a social aspect 
> involving non-tech savvy communities that I feel very (almost too) 
> qualified to talk about *if* you don't mind case studies and open 
> conversation about those studies rather than a cut and dried 
> presentation. That's something I wouldn't have to prepare too hard for 
> because I live it every day. Call this program "Social Patterns in 
> Content Management" if that's the program you'd like to have. This would 
> be a very non-technical program, if that's makes a difference in 
> interest among TriZPUGers.
> I have five Plone sites with different communities.
> The community that is the most non-tech savvy takes to Plone the best. 
> Go figure. They love it. They feel powerful with it. Not only do they 
> take to it, the workflow out of the box works best for them. Not only do 
> they take to it, having Plone has kind of worked the kinks out of 
> communication within the community. Previously, the stage in the 
> community was monopolized by people who were just holding titles and not 
> communicating very well with their community. Now the people in the 
> community who have the most energy and talent are emerging as the 
> organizers and communicators. The title holders have not objected 
> because they were never too comfortable in the seats they held anyway. I 
> call that my Plone success story. There are concrete reasons for that 
> success and the reasons are pretty social. And the success is itself 
> changing the community for the better. These reasons definitely have 
> contrast with my other cases studies. This case study is also very 
> interesting because I have invested the least in developing this 
> particular site. I spent a weekend on it before launching two months 
> ago, including installing Python, Zope, and Plone from source. I've 
> probably spent a weekend on it since then. There was a previous 
> webmaster maintained site for this community before the Plone site.
> I have three Plone sites which are so new that they aren't well 
> developed yet in terms of community. One is a matter of the community 
> itself not being well developed enough to know what they want out of it. 
> I have low investment in that site so far. Another is a matter of the 
> community not being aware of the site yet because the community 
> management wants to make sure there is a workflow that fits before the 
> site is launched (isn't that refreshing!). I will have increasing 
> investment in that site. Another is a matter of a community of few 
> people where everyone is overworked and already has too many other sites 
> and systems they have to contribute to. The future of that site is 
> uncertain as the future of the community is uncertain.
> A final case involves a Plone site where because of bureaucratic 
> reasons, Plone is only being used as a publishing system. I have high 
> investment on that site, and a large portion of that investment is 
> complexly social. That situation is being changed to a community driven 
> content management system, the change is highly necessaery, and the 
> change is also primarily one of social interactions. Making the change 
> has complications because certain unhealthy expectations have already 
> become entrenched from using Plone as a publishing system. The community 
> and body of content is also relatively large adding to the complexity of 
> the change. There are definitely lessons learned from this case study: 
> a) do it the right way from the beginning, b) stick to the community 
> paradigm, c) release early and release often but don't release for the 
> sake of releasing.
> Finally, Geoff, Joel Burton, myself, and others in TriZPUG are gauging 
> interest for a Plone boot camp in the Triangle, possibly to be hosted at 
> UNC, possibly elsewhere. Ben Best at Duke is in on this. If you have 
> interest, Paolo, you should get onboard, too. This is shaping up to be a 
> significant event in many respects.

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