[triangle-zpug] Last evening's meeting

Ben Best bbest at duke.edu
Fri May 28 19:58:04 CEST 2004


BCC: Duke CMS list members

Chris et al,

Thanks very much for this excellent summary of points.  The meeting
proved a very worthwhile discussion for me.

> 3) Group projects. (Chris and Ben want to work on PloneMap
> together; are 
> there other community projects that would instructional for the 
> participants?)

I concur.  You and I can help with the documentation, ie translation of
French to English, and provide some lessons learned.  Another project
that is of research interest to me is R Zope
(http://www.analytics.washington.edu/statcomp/projects/rzope), providing
a web interface and service to the statistical language R through
Zope/Plone.

As mentioned at the meeting, subgroups within tri-zpug could help to
further hone collaborations and meaningful output.  Based on people at
Wednesday's meeting, we've got two initial subgroups:

 1) Educational Administration
    * NCSU DELTA (http://delta.ncsu.edu)
    * Duke Zope4Edu (http://www.oit.duke.edu/ows/cms.html)

 2) Oceanographic/Geographic Research
    * UNC SEA-COOS (http://www.seacoos.org)
    * Duke OBIS-SEAMAP (http://seamap.env.duke.edu)
 
> 4) Group course development. (Python? Zope? CMF? Python
> module trails? 
> Online or classroom? Are commercial Zope courses worth the money? How 
> much independent study is required? Is reading the source the 
> only way? 
> How far does reading the source go without some general idea 
> of what's 
> going on?)

You've got me interested in the Whistler training
(http://www.enfoldsystems.com/Training/Whistler).  It would, naturally,
be nice to know in advance how much bang for the buck you get out of
such a class.

> 5) TriZPUG Plone site, hosted at UNC or NCSU (I ran this by UNC this
> morning and they had no objections). The point would *not* be 
> to replace 
> the zope.org TriZPUG presence or this mailing list on python.net, but 
> rather to facilitate a TriZPUG members only Wiki and group 
> collaboration 
> product development site. Maybe like The Collective, but more 
> for just 
> TriZPUG? A virtual clubhouse for group activities using the 
> very tools 
> that Zope and Plone bring. A place for your road map 
> development, FAQs, 
> projects, courseware development, etc..

A Zwiki continues to allow for posting of community content, minutes of
meetings, posting of presentations, subscription to pages, etc.

> 1) What is the objective of TriZPUG? (One answer: facilitating
> development as a Zope professional. Another answer: I like 
> Python; this 
> is my fun time.)

The objectives listed already on the TriZPUG frontpage
(http://dev.zope.org/Members/tbryan/TriZPUG/FrontPage) are well put:

 * Learn about new Python / Zope packages and benefit from other
members' experiences 
 * Force ourselves to master a few packages / products sufficiently well
to give good talks 
 * Network with other Python / Zope people in the area to promote
collaboration on future projects 
 
> 2) If getting beyond a mere beginner's point in Zope/CMF is
> so hard, why 
> do people try to do it? (One answer was: because Plone delivers above 
> and beyond other frameworks such as J2EE and other CMS alternatives). 
> Why would we market Zope to ourselves?

Another reason I like Plone, in particular, is because the native
javascripts and stylesheets handle modern cross-browser display well
(stuff I'd rather not mess with), in addition to all the excellent
workflow-oriented products, ie calendaring, news and RSS.
 
> 2) How do we give value to Python/Zope/CMF/Plone experts (or
> rather, how 
> do experts find value in TriZPUG?) in order to secure their 
> participation, which would presumably balance the newbie participants 
> (i.e., thereby giving the newbies value)? How do we give value to 
> newbies while developing more expert participation or becoming expert 
> ourselves (self-answering question?)?

Balancing the interests of beginners and experts presents an interesting
challenge for most user groups.

> 3) Should there be more frequent meetings, or meetings for different
> audiences? Can we expect value from 12 or fewer meetings per 
> year as a 
> group purpose? Should meetings be for things that can only (or mo' 
> better) be face to face with more participation taking place 
> virtually? 
> Should meetings be more like last night where participants compared 
> notes rather than having a structured program? Should there 
> be separate 
> nights for structured programs? Should some meetings be more about 
> planning group activities/directions? Should there be separate nights 
> for different interests (e.g., Python vs. CMS)?

I like the idea of having some sort of event to anticipate such as a
presentation, with discussion to follow, as seems the general format so
far.

> 4) How do we "cast the net?" We know there are many more
> pythonistas and 
> zopistas active in the Triangle that whom come to TriZPUG. Many 
> pythonistas are not even aware of what their fellow 
> pythonistas down the 
> hall are doing. Or that they are down the hall.

I have bcc'd this email to the members on the Duke CMS list to encourage
participation.  For those of you on the Duke CMS list, I've attached
Chris' original message, and you can check out email archives, including
in between responses, at
http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/triangle-zpug -> archives.

> Finally, some possibilities for June started from what
> anyone's idea of 
> what a Zope executive summary should include and went from there:
> 
> 1) Plone 2 demo (Chris can do if date changes for June). It's
> been over 
> a year since the last Plone demo and Plone 2 is out now.
> 
> 2) Ben shows how he ported a PHP app. I bet Ben can also demo
> Plone 2. :)

Ok, given that I am a newbie myself, and my approach is fraught with
problems so far, it should be quite an educational experience as much,
if not more, to me than attendees.  With that caveat, my talk would be
titled something like:

  Step-wise Migration from PHP to Plone: A Dirt-Ball Approach
  * using traverse_subpath, urllib and PHParser/PHPGateway while
migrating to ZPT, Archetype products

I still welcome a more meaningful talk.

> 3) Your other ideas here. We didn't come up with a good way to
> communicate all the components of Zope in one sitting. It was 
> suggested 
> to possibly concentrate on just one aspect of Zope for 
> presentation at 
> the next meeting, but that aspect wasn't named or tasked.
> 
> This is not meant to be an authoritative recap of what transpired
> yesterday. Just trying to turn the "crickets" into cicadas. :)
> 
> So pick a discussion point and run with it or add your own.

In our continued search for a tri-ZPug identity, I submit a mascot:  

  "ZPug"
  http://seamap.env.duke.edu/Members/bbest/zpug/tri-zpug_mascot.gif
  http://seamap.env.duke.edu/Members/bbest/zpug/trizpug_mascot_large.gif

My furry friend from home might help to give a fun look to the Tri-ZPUG
community web site(s).  You might notice the snake in the grass
(Python), his frisbee (Plone), the triangle shape and if found, please
return to the rightful owner (Zope).  It's pretty silly, so I'm not wed
to it if any of you think it's overboard.

Groove on, Ben
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