[triangle-zpug] boot camp preparation

AM Thomas am at virtueofthesmall.com
Tue Dec 28 21:50:18 CET 2004

Hey, campers and non-campers!  More off-topic-for-most message.  Apologies.

This is more about my setup; skip if you're not interested (it's pretty  
boring).  I figured I'd better post this so no one else follows up to my  
old information.

I very much appreciate the helpful comments, Tom, Chris, and Geoff.  I now  
have Debian (stable) installed (I think I'm living with a wanna-be system  
admin, fortunately, as I didn't really have time to muck with it myself)  
with Python 2.3.4 + Zope 2.7.3 + Plone 2.0.5, plus a fairly lightweight  
window manager and Firefox; everything seems to be working, though I  
haven't worked with Plone through local Firefox much.  I think it will be  
OK, though I haven't done much more than try updating the Plone site's  
home page text.  I've also got 128 M memory coming (the max I could find  
for this laptop) via FedEx which should be here soon.  So, there ya go.  I  
think I'll be OK as long as 128 MB will help as much as I hope it will.

I knew boot camp would involve actually working with Plone; I guess  
initially I hoped that my laptop would be mainly for using a browser and  
connecting to some central server's Plone setup, in which case, the Win98  
partition with Firefox would have been OK.  But I can certainly see the  
advantages to having my own setup right there with me.

Sorry to be a problem child.  It's good to hear from you guys, though.  I  
felt I really needed to get a handle on the setup early in case my  
hardware wouldn't work out, or in case there were complications.  There  
were, but we installed most of the important stuff from source & know  
where to find things now, so modifications shouldn't be too difficult, I  

- AM

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:38:54 -0500, Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu> wrote:

> Tom Bryan wrote:
>  > I'm not sure how Chris and Joel feel about it, but I would move this
>  > discussion to the boot camp mailing list.
> I agree and am only replying here because Joel informs me the hosting  
> for plonebootcamp.com is offline today and he is attempting to get the  
> hosting company to respond to him. Sorry.
> I only discovered this just now when I tried to go to the boot camp  
> mailing list membership list to see who to pester to join. I called Joel  
> and he's working on it.
> Such problems are why I abandoned shared hosting. Whenever possible,  
> locally colocate.
> AM Thomas wrote:
>>> When I signed up, I asked Chris whether I'd need to set up Plone to  
>>> run on
>>> my laptop.  The answer seems to be yes.
> Yes, that was the answer. And again, instructions on specifics need to  
> come from Joel on the, uh, temporarily unavailable boot camp mailing  
> list. Joel is not a member of the TriZPUG list.
> At the very least, you will need a laptop to participate in the weekend  
> Sprint. My understanding is that Boot Camp is very participatory. So to  
> participate, it seems to me that you will need you hands on Plone.
>>> I've got an older laptop (about 5 years? Not completely sure - it's an
>>> Asus L7300) with 64M memory, a Pentium Celeron processor, and a Red Hat
>>> 7.3 partition that I *think* I will attempt to outfit for use in the  
>>> boot
>>> camp class.
> Very tight. For running anything modern.
>>> I'm guessing I'll have to replace the OS with something more modern (I
>>> looked through some Plone and Python install pages & it looks like I'd
>>> want Fedora core 1, then Python 2.3.3, then I can set up Plone);
> Pretty good installation instructions are in The Definitive Guide to  
> Plone, referenced on:
> http://trizpug.org/up-to-speed/
>> You could try.  With those specs, I'd be tempted to stick with what  
>> you've got and just build/install Python, Zope, and Plone by hand.  Or  
>> make RPMs locally from the SRPMs.
> I would build from source, and not even bother with RPMs and SRPMs, if  
> using any flavor of RedHat. This is because RedHat has managed to  
> royally screw up Python, Tcl, Tk, and a whole host of other things in  
> ways that would take pages to describe. Again, refer to The Definitive  
> Guide to Plone.
> There's a whole illustrated chapter on installing:
> http://his.biologie.hu-berlin.de/PloneBook/ch2.rst
> The most trouble free installs are on Windows and Mac. We usually save  
> the frustration of a Linux install for an actual server where we need  
> Linux. Plone best practice is to develop on the Win/Mac laptop/desktop,  
> check code into CVS/SVN, and then rsync to the Linux/BSD server. I think  
> such practices will be covered on the last day of camp.
> Tom Bryan wrote:
>> I don't think so.  It won't be the zippiest thing, but if you're using  
>> a lightweight window manager, then I bet you could squeeze Plone in  
>> there and still keep up.  It's not like your laptop has to handle a lot  
>> of traffice.  It just needs to serve one local client (you) while you  
>> play with the course material.  If you set it up this weekend, then you  
>> could try it and see just how fast it feels.  Of course, if we do much  
>> with Plone + a RDBMS (e.g., PostreSQL), then you may start swapping a  
>> lot.
> Correct. Running a bunch of server software in 64M is not the wisest  
> thing. Running Zope and other server software on the same machine is OK  
> for development. For production, the Zope INSTALL.TXT does mention  
> something about running Zope on a dedicated server. But for development,  
> we of course run everything on one machine. So, it makes sense to have a  
> machine capable of that.
> If your machine grinds to its knees, we *may* be able to secure you a  
> loaner for the week, Ann Marie.
>> I'm not familiar enough with Plone to know whether Plone adds a lot of  
>> CPU or memory overhead beyond Zope itself.
> No. It's a bunch of Zope templates and scripts.
> A single instance of Zope on RedHat runs at around 10 percent of CPU on  
> a 3 GHz Pentium.
>> You would also be running an older browser, which could cause problems  
>> with CSS.
> Yes, please install a CSS compatible browser.
> Again, a list is in the install instructions from The Definitive Guide  
> to Plone:
> http://his.biologie.hu-berlin.de/PloneBook/ch2.rst
> I wouldn't even use Safari, because its Javascript isn't up to snuff  
> enough to even run Epoz.
> Firefox (not listed for some reason) seems to rule. Moz and NS 7.2, too,  
> for folks who are concerned about the latest Gecko branch and patches.
>> Another option is just to use your laptop to take notes and run a  
>> browser.  Then you could hope that someone else will have enough spare  
>> horsepower to run a second Plone instance for you.
> That's a great idea, Tom.
> AM Thomas wrote:
>>> In a related note, how much do I need to get out of "Diving into  
>>> Python"
>>> before Jan 3?
> Enough to evaluate a Python expression. That looks like the first three  
> chapters to me:
> http://diveintopython.org/toc/index.html
>>> OK, I probably should have sent this to the boot camp list, but I'd  
>>> like
>>> confirmation of that from someone.
> Yep. Although it would have bounced today. Ironic that.
> Sorry again to bother non-campers with this.

Virtue of the Small / (919) 929-8687

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