[Triangle] Re: [triangle-zpug] boot camp preparation

Geoff Davis geoff at geoffdavis.net
Tue Dec 28 20:05:08 CET 2004

I don't know in detail how Joel is planning to run things, but from some
of our early conversations on the subject, the week will be styled after
the old ArsDigita boot camps.  That means that lectures will be at a
bare minimum -- if you don't have access to an instance of Plone that
you can hack, you're not going to get very much out of the week.  Think
10% lectures, 90% working on programming problems with a facilitator
around to help out.  

Zope and Plone are both memory pigs -- you definitely need more than
64M.  You probably need about 256M at a bare minimum -- I don't run with
anything less than 512M.


On Tue, 2004-12-28 at 13:38, Chris Calloway wrote:
> Tom Bryan wrote:
>  > I'm not sure how Chris and Joel feel about it, but I would move this
>  > discussion to the boot camp mailing list.
> I agree and am only replying here because Joel informs me the hosting 
> for plonebootcamp.com is offline today and he is attempting to get the 
> hosting company to respond to him. Sorry.
> I only discovered this just now when I tried to go to the boot camp 
> mailing list membership list to see who to pester to join. I called Joel 
> and he's working on it.
> Such problems are why I abandoned shared hosting. Whenever possible, 
> locally colocate.
> AM Thomas wrote:
> >>When I signed up, I asked Chris whether I'd need to set up Plone to run on
> >>my laptop.  The answer seems to be yes.
> Yes, that was the answer. And again, instructions on specifics need to 
> come from Joel on the, uh, temporarily unavailable boot camp mailing 
> list. Joel is not a member of the TriZPUG list.
> At the very least, you will need a laptop to participate in the weekend 
> Sprint. My understanding is that Boot Camp is very participatory. So to 
> participate, it seems to me that you will need you hands on Plone.
> >>I've got an older laptop (about 5 years? Not completely sure - it's an
> >>Asus L7300) with 64M memory, a Pentium Celeron processor, and a Red Hat
> >>7.3 partition that I *think* I will attempt to outfit for use in the boot
> >>camp class.
> Very tight. For running anything modern.
> >>I'm guessing I'll have to replace the OS with something more modern (I
> >>looked through some Plone and Python install pages & it looks like I'd
> >>want Fedora core 1, then Python 2.3.3, then I can set up Plone); 
> Pretty good installation instructions are in The Definitive Guide to 
> Plone, referenced on:
> http://trizpug.org/up-to-speed/
> > You could try.  With those specs, I'd be tempted to stick with what you've got 
> > and just build/install Python, Zope, and Plone by hand.  Or make RPMs locally 
> > from the SRPMs.
> I would build from source, and not even bother with RPMs and SRPMs, if 
> using any flavor of RedHat. This is because RedHat has managed to 
> royally screw up Python, Tcl, Tk, and a whole host of other things in 
> ways that would take pages to describe. Again, refer to The Definitive 
> Guide to Plone.
> There's a whole illustrated chapter on installing:
> http://his.biologie.hu-berlin.de/PloneBook/ch2.rst
> The most trouble free installs are on Windows and Mac. We usually save 
> the frustration of a Linux install for an actual server where we need 
> Linux. Plone best practice is to develop on the Win/Mac laptop/desktop, 
> check code into CVS/SVN, and then rsync to the Linux/BSD server. I think 
> such practices will be covered on the last day of camp.
> Tom Bryan wrote:
> > I don't think so.  It won't be the zippiest thing, but if you're using a 
> > lightweight window manager, then I bet you could squeeze Plone in there and 
> > still keep up.  It's not like your laptop has to handle a lot of traffice.  
> > It just needs to serve one local client (you) while you play with the course 
> > material.  If you set it up this weekend, then you could try it and see just 
> > how fast it feels.  Of course, if we do much with Plone + a RDBMS (e.g., 
> > PostreSQL), then you may start swapping a lot.
> Correct. Running a bunch of server software in 64M is not the wisest 
> thing. Running Zope and other server software on the same machine is OK 
> for development. For production, the Zope INSTALL.TXT does mention 
> something about running Zope on a dedicated server. But for development, 
> we of course run everything on one machine. So, it makes sense to have a 
> machine capable of that.
> If your machine grinds to its knees, we *may* be able to secure you a 
> loaner for the week, Ann Marie.
> > I'm not familiar enough with Plone to know whether Plone adds a lot of CPU or 
> > memory overhead beyond Zope itself.
> No. It's a bunch of Zope templates and scripts.
> A single instance of Zope on RedHat runs at around 10 percent of CPU on 
> a 3 GHz Pentium.
> > You would also be running an older 
> > browser, which could cause problems with CSS.  
> Yes, please install a CSS compatible browser.
> Again, a list is in the install instructions from The Definitive Guide 
> to Plone:
> http://his.biologie.hu-berlin.de/PloneBook/ch2.rst
> I wouldn't even use Safari, because its Javascript isn't up to snuff 
> enough to even run Epoz.
> Firefox (not listed for some reason) seems to rule. Moz and NS 7.2, too, 
> for folks who are concerned about the latest Gecko branch and patches.
> > Another option is just to use your laptop to take notes and run a browser.  
> > Then you could hope that someone else will have enough spare horsepower to 
> > run a second Plone instance for you.
> That's a great idea, Tom.
> AM Thomas wrote:
> >>In a related note, how much do I need to get out of "Diving into Python"
> >>before Jan 3?
> Enough to evaluate a Python expression. That looks like the first three 
> chapters to me:
> http://diveintopython.org/toc/index.html
> >>OK, I probably should have sent this to the boot camp list, but I'd like
> >>confirmation of that from someone.
> Yep. Although it would have bounced today. Ironic that.
> Sorry again to bother non-campers with this.

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